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Overcoming the social stigma of getting financial help

Social stigma plays a big role in whether people seek out financial coaching, counseling or education. Social stigma also plays a part in whether people feel good while getting financial help. Money Habitudes is often employed in a manner to help minimize or alleviate the perceived stigma, shame or embarrassment of seeking financial help. Typically, therapists, financial coaches and financial planners use Money Habitudes to make client interactions better without even realizing how it’s related to social stigma.
There are a number of social stigma theories, but there are common elements between them. Below, we’ll largely consider Erving Goffman’s seminal stigma structure.

Ways that Money Habitudes can help alleviate social stigma:

  1. Easiesocial stigma of financial helpr to walk in the door – A lot of financial programs implicitly speak to clients and participants about having problems. For example, if you sign up to attend a “Get out of debt” class, it sends the message to others that you’re in debt. That can be stigmatizing and hard to admit. On the other hand, using Money Habitudes often means going to a first class or session that carries less stigma: “Discover your money personality type” or “Learn about your financial influences,” etc.
  2. Less confrontation and judgement – When people seek financial help, many of those interactions take on the tone of an expert telling a novice what to do. It can be very prescriptive and come across as “You’re not handling your finances well. I know how to do it better. You need to listen to me and do what I say.” That can make people feel shame or embarrassment. Money Habitudes cards produce a money personality profile, but they do not tell people that they are good or bad, smart or stupid, when it comes to money. They also start the process from a place where people are more comfortable and will share and reveal stories, which isn’t usually true of other first interactions.
  3. Avoiding numbers – A temptation of financial counseling and coaching is to jump right into numbers. This frequently means collecting receipts and making a budget. Not that there isn’t value in this step, but it can be a difficult introduction if someone feels uncomfortable or incompetent with numbers, math, spreadsheets and the like.
  4. Sympathy and empathy – As Goffman theorizes, there are people who are “stigmatized” and then there are those who are “normals” who do not bear that stigma. A subset of “normals” are people who are “wise” and are accepted by the “stigmatized” as understanding their difficult situation. Going through the Money Habitudes process – either as a staff training exercise or as an activity with clients – helps people relate better to one another. It makes it easier to share stories and understand that everyone has strengths and challenges around money; the activity underscores that everyone has financial habits and attitudes that can be helpful or harmful.
  5. Not the only one – One of the most helpful outcomes of doing Money Habitudes in a group is that people have that “Oh, yeah, me too” moment where they relate to one another. It can be really helpful to hear that you’re not the only one facing a problem and that other people have the same issues and often have wisdom to share about overcoming it.

Financial Opportunity Centers: dialogue with financial coaches, clients & funders

financial opportunity centersThe Issue: How to create a productive connection between financial coaches and coaching clients at Financial Opportunity Centers. And how to demonstrate the intricacies of a financial coaching program to funders.
Who: Valerie Moffitt is a Program Manager with Local Initiatives Support Corporation (LISC) in Toledo, Ohio.
What: Nationally, LISC supports Financial Opportunity Centers (FOCs) in many cities. In Toledo, there are three FOCs that are run by partner organizations. The centers are designed to offer integrated services in an asset building context: financial counseling and coaching, employment coaching, and income support counseling.

  • LISC uses a financial coaching model in its Financial Opportunity Centers. The model is based on work done by the Center for Working Families and the Annie E. Casey Foundation.
  • Instead of prescriptive financial counseling, LISC’s model relies on coaches who help clients make their own choices and come up with their own solutions. “A coach asks more than they tell. A coach will ask you what you need and then ask the follow-up questions so you can figure out how to get there. And then they help hold you accountable to the plan or goals you set,” says Moffitt.
  • In Toledo, LISC has 8 full-time financial coaches who work at the three Financial Opportunity Centers. Each person has been certified as a financial coach after completing a 40-hour program offered by Central New Mexico Community College. Coaches work with about 200 clients per year. Moffitt says that, of these, about 40-50 clients will remain engaged for at least 4-5 coaching sessions.
  • The program equips coaches with a number of hands-on coaching tools, including life wheels, priority charts, visualization techniques and Money Habitudes cards. The cards help coaches initiate conversation with clients. They also help clients self assess their financial habits and attitudes.
    • “We want clients to understand what their values and their attitudes are and how those are – or are not – matching up with their behaviors. And sometimes people get really stuck or it takes a long time to develop that trusting relationship with your coach so Money Habitudes is one of the things our coaches use during their initial visits. It helps a coach facilitate an honest conversation with a client,” says Moffitt.
  • In addition, Moffitt says that LISC uses the cards to demonstrate to funders how the financial opportunity centers work.
    • When doing site tours, privacy constraints often restrict funders from seeing how financial coaching is actually delivered at the centers.
    • LISC’s financial model is more involved than simply teaching people money management in a class setting. One-on-one financial coaching is time-and resource-intensive; it’s important to convey to funders why supporting this coaching model is both worthwhile and more expensive than other less intensive services.
    • LISC helps FOC partners convey to funders how simply teaching skills or prescribing a financial to-do list may be easier and cheaper but end up being less effective. To help funders understand the challenging aspects of behavior change, LISC FOC partners walk them through doing the Money Habitudes money personality activity They are also exposed to the Beantown simulation.


  • “The Money Habitudes cards are a tool in the coaches’ toolbox. It really helps break the ice with clients and helps them see themselves. For a coach, after speaking with someone, you can come to an understanding of where you think they are; the Money Habitudes cards help them self-define and really show where they are. Then they can figure out those areas they need to work on with their behaviors,” says Moffitt.
  • “It’s hard to get funders to understand that we can’t deliver one-and-done service; when you look at our per-person costs, it can seem really high. And funders will ask, ‘Why can’t someone come into your office, you tell them how to spend their money better and they leave and there’s a good outcome?’ We really need to talk about the long-term behavior change that’s needed and, to demonstrate that, we can use the Money Habitudes cards to help funders recognize the challenges in their own behaviors and see things they might not have realized before. It really opens their eyes to why the process is so lengthy.”

financial coaching v. financial counseling v. financial planning v. financial education

What is financial coaching? Is it the same as financial counseling or financial planning? Are those different from financial education?
It’s a pretty basic question of financial terminology, but an important one. After all, these terms – financial coaching, counseling, education and planning – are often used interchangeably.
The field identification guide helps clarify what service an organization or professional is delivering. It also helps potential clients understand what service to seek out. Someone who needs financial coaching but calls a financial planner won’t get the right help – and may only be frustrated by the interaction.
Of course, much of the fault lies in the interchangeability of terms used by organizations and professionals. Also, the paper does not tackle the various certifications, standards, licenses and accrediting organizations that define each role and title. Although the CFP designation is well known and understood, other titles like “financial coach” are used more generically and certification, training and experience can vary coaching counseling education planning

Here’s how Money Habitudes is used in each scenario:

Financial Coaching:

  • Used to build rapport; a good way to make a first interaction feel less threatening.
  • Helps financial coaches understand clients’ financial habits, attitudes, values, behaviors and emotional triggers.
  • Allows clients to pinpoint their own strengths and challenges and identify changes they want to make; goal-setting
  • Used one-on-one or with couples.

Financial Education:

  • Used in financial class settings, often as a first full class or as an ice breaker activity as part of another class (on a topic like budgeting).
  • Done individually with class activities or group discussion after.
  • Often used as a lead-in to identify issues so people decide on other classes to attend (reducing debt, investing, etc.) or as a foundation for financial counseling or coaching.
  • Acts as a hook to get people to engage on the topic of money without the stress of dealing with numbers, how-much-you-make, examining expenses, etc., right away.
  • Sets a tone of engagement, fun, conversation and sharing in a class environment.

Financial Counseling:

  • Helps identify issues and establish rapport.
  • Helps client take ownership; decreases focus on prescriptive solutions to some degree
  • Get partners to start a non-threatening dialogue.

Financial Planning:

  • A good, non-threatening way to have a “getting to know you” conversation or as a supplement or other intake and discovery tools.
  • Serves as a method to understand investing styles, comfort zone, and to tailor plans to a client.
  • Also used to help couples align their financial goals.

Additionally, Money Habitudes is often used to train all of the above professions. It’s typically used to help people understand how different clients see and use money and to help people talk about habits and attitudes as opposed to just talking about skills and facts. It’s also used as a sensitivity training tool: to help people who are, for example, very comfortable with financial plans and numbers and spreadsheets to work with people who are not like them, but who have other strengths.

An innovative peer teaching financial education program for kids

The Issue: How to develop a scalable peer teaching financial literacy program that’s fun and easy enough for kids to teach other kids.
Who: Amanda Christensen is an Extension Assistant Professor with Utah State University and a 4-H & Youth Programs Educator with Morgan County Extension.
utah state - peer teaching financial educationWhat: Christensen, Dave Francis, Zuri Garcia and Stacey MacArthur, Associate Professors at Utah State University Extension, created the Utah 4-H & Fidelity Investments Money Mentors Program, a unique peer-to-peer financial education curriculum for high school and junior high school students. The peer teaching project won the Fidelity Investments Financial Education Grant Challenge. The financial education challenge sought “innovative and engaging ideas that improve the financial literacy of high school students in low-income areas and that utilize Fidelity’s employee volunteers and financial knowledge.” Utah 4-H’s winning idea was selected from 73 entries submitted from 30 states. The program draws on 4-H’s “Teens Reaching Youth” model.

  • Seeking a model that scales easily, the financial education program relies on a train-the-trainer and peer education model.
  • “We train Fidelity volunteers on the curriculum. The Fidelity volunteers teach high-school-aged kids on the curriculum. And then the high school kids turn around and go back to their counties throughout the state and teach middle-school-aged kids. So it’s train-the-trainer to the ultimate degree,” says Christensen.
  • As a result, the peer teaching curriculum has to be simple and engaging. “Somebody who knows nothing about financial literacy education can teach it,” says Christensen.
  • In the first stage of the peer teaching program, a few dozen high school students were drawn from across the state and then trained by Fidelity Investments employees.
    • The training for the students happens during one weekend. Students get one day of training on how to teach (classroom management, etc.) and one day of training on the Money Mentors Curriculum.
    • High school students who are selected for the program do not need any prior financial knowledge or expertise.
    • The financial training is six lessons. The first lesson uses Money Habitudes cards.
    • The succeeding 1-hour lessons include: Creating a Spending Blueprint, Saving and sharing (philanthropy), Credit, Investing, and Investing in Yourself (human capital). Although designed to be taught as a series, each lesson can be taught as a standalone class too.
  • “We do Money Habitudes right off the bat. As a financial educator, I think it’s something that people need to address and be aware of before they ever start talking about investing or wise use of credit or creating a spending plan. They’ve got to know where they’re coming from and what their foundation is. So that’s the first lesson,” says Christensen.
    • The Money Habitudes lesson takes 20-30 minutes.
    • Using the Money Habitudes cards helps students understand their financial habits and attitudes but it also sets a fun, hands-on tone for the rest of the class and opens up dialogue about money in an easy way.
    • Before sorting the cards, students fill out a brief money values worksheet. After the activity they get a fake $100 bill and then label how they’d spend the money (perhaps breaking it up into $50, $30 and $20 sub-sections) based on their Money Habitudes.
  • Once trained, teens return to their communities with a mandate to then train at least 15 younger students on the 6-hour program over the next year. This may be in schools, camps or after-school programs like 4-H. High school students receive awards for reaching more kids.
  • High school students teach in a “TRY Team.” (TRY stands for “Teens Reaching Youth.”) Each team is made up of 2-4 teens and their adult coach. The coach is usually a local 4-H educator or teacher.
  • The goal of the peer teaching program is to easily multiply the number of instances of financial education as one team of high school students will teach dozens of other students. And, as younger students are taught finances, the older students continuously learn the material by teaching it, a common 4-H practice.

“Money Habitudes is the first actual activity in the first lesson. It’s an individual thing – each kid does it on their own – but we come together at the end of that activity and you have some automatic talking points. It’s the first day of the first lesson. Kids don’t know each other well, plus we’re talking about the difficult topic of money – and who knows what their financial situation is – but Money Habitudes gives them a comfortable foundation and puts them on even ground so they can talk about money. It gives them common ground,” says Christensen.

Emotional triggers and financial stress

financial stressFinancial stress is serious.  It was identified as the number one cause of stress in a 2009 study by the American Psychological Association. Financial stress is associated with increases in:

  • suicide attempts and suicide rates
  • physical illness
  • divorce rates
  • domestic violence
  • poor cognitive decisions.
  • (Financial stress is also associated with a decrease in productivity in the workplace.)

When people are in crisis, they may seek help and resources through community, military and faith-based programs.  The focus is often on addressing the immediate need for food, shelter, medical care and safety. But then what? People who have received help may then find themselves in a similar situation again even. This is true even if they had been lucky enough to receive training on financial management skills: how to budget, get out of debt, shop wisely and save. Knowledge, alone, may not be enough. Today there is more awareness that emotional money triggers have tremendous influence on our financial choices.
Recently there has been a lot of focus on understanding emotional triggers and how they influence financial behaviors. For example, a single mom works two jobs. She’s exhausted and feels guilty that a sitter is putting her kids to bed each night. She commits to saving $20 a week for an emergency fund. What are the emotional triggers that will sabotage her good intentions?

  • Will she slip because she spends impulsively and needs help with strategies to avoid or resist temptation?
  • Will she automatically give money to friends or family when they ask for help?  Then she may need to learn how to set priorities and say “no” or get some help with her fear of being rejected or hurt when she doesn’t please the person asking for the money.
  • Will she end up spending that money because her friends have different priorities and she doesn’t want to jeopardize her relationships by not joining them for a good time?  She may need counseling on self-esteem and speaking up.

Once we can help people identify their emotional triggers, we can help them find the right strategies to be prepared for the times their emotions will kick in. By helping them be prepared, they are more likely to be successful!
Money Habitudes cards will identify their emotional triggers and provide suggested activities if any Habitude is being overused.  The Professional Guide includes: (1) How to set SMART goals; (2) how to predict and overcome obstacles and (3) 67 Action Steps classified by the Habitudes they work for.

Making financial classes for women more engaging

The Issue: How to make financial classes for women more engaging and welcoming while providing valuable skills for handling money.
financial classes for womenWho: Emily Adams is an agriculture and natural resources educator with Ohio State University Extension Service in Coshocton County.
What: Adams runs Annie’s Project in Coshocton County. She also runs a follow-up financial education program for women called Moving Beyond The Basics. Annie’s Project is, at its heart, a risk management program for women. Now managed by riskIowa State Extension, the program fosters problem solving, record keeping, and decision-making skills in farm women.

  • Adams teaches risk management over 6 weeks using the Annie’s Project curriculum. The financial classes for women are held once a week for 6 weeks. Each evening class is three hours and participants enjoy a catered dinner together (to build camaraderie and because many participants come straight from work). Classes have about 15 people.
  • Participants pay a nominal fee of about $65 to participate. The program has gotten grant money from the North Central Risk Management Education Center and sponsorship from Farm Credit to defray costs.

    annies project - financial classes for women
    A group of participants from Annie’s Project, financial classes for women.
  • The 6 weeks of Annie’s Project covers risk management as it relates to Production, Marketing, Legal, Institutional, Financial and Human Resources.
  • Moving Beyond the Basics – Farm Financial Education for Women is a supplemental program that focuses on finances and recordkeeping. Adams teaches this course as six sessions as well. Classes are held in the evening and dinner is provided. Ideally, those who participate in the supplemental financial classes for women have already taken the core Annie’s Project classes, but this isn’t required.
  • The very first topic in the Moving Beyond the Basics series is financial habits and attitudes. This is taught using Money Habitudes cards. The module lasts about an hour.
  • Each participant gets a deck of Money Habitudes cards to sort. Then participants are able to interpret their own money personality results. Next, participants break up into groups based on their dominant Money Habitudes types (so people with the same money personality work together) and answer group questions.
  • The recommendation to use Money Habitudes came from Tim Eggers and Kristin Schulte with ISU Extension.
  • Money Habitudes plays an important role in the financial classes for women. The cards:
    • Make for a fun, engaging and hands-on first activity to get participants involved in the classes.
    • Break down the wall to talking about finances.
    • Create conversation between participants, to make them accustomed to sharing and talking with each other.
    • Help participants understand their own financial habits and attitudes.
    • Allow women to gain insight into how to talk about money and farm finances with other people – often other family members involved in the business. As Adams says, “Most of these women are not alone on their farm and there’s somebody else who probably thinks about money in a different way in that operation.”
  • The interactive, sharing nature of Money Habitudes aligns well with the larger objectives of Annie’s Project classes. The women’s financial education classes are designed to be hands-on instead of just lectures. The project also strives to utilize peer learning and networking in a safe, non-threatening environment.
  • After working with the Money Habitudes cards, the first night’s class covers financial recordkeeping practices and vocabulary as well as how financial statements work together.
  • Participants have the opportunity to borrow the cards and do them at home with other people after the first class.
  • Later classes build on the first night. These cover balance sheets, accrual adjustments to income statements, cash flow estimation, electronic recordkeeping, standard financial ratios and benchmarks.


  • “It’s a really nice activity-based learning to have for the first night. It helps the women get more comfortable with each other and sets the stage for how you relate to money and how you deal with money,” says Adams.
  • “You’re going to learn all these skills and all this technical information, but, at the end of the day, if you can’t go home and talk to your husband, brother or whomever your business partner may be about these financial decisions and get to the root of where financial troubles may be coming from, then the rest of the classes are for naught. Understanding how you relate to money and being able to communicate that to other people is a really important, really fundamental skill set.”
  • “I don’t think we’d have people complete all six weeks if we started out the first class with just sitting down and doing a budget or hearing a lecture about finances. We take a holistic approach to adult education.”
  • “Money Habitudes is so hands-on, it’s so immediate and there’s such great feedback on it.”

5 Tips for More Fun and Effective Financial Classes

5 tips for financial classesDo you feel like you have so much information to share that you need to make the most of every moment when you teach financial education classes? Research has shown us that how we teach may be more important than how much we teach. Here are five tips to get the most bang-for-your buck when you only have an hour or two to make your points.

  1. More fun, more learning.
    When adults and teens are actively engaged and enjoying themselves, they literally take in more information and retain it better. It doesn’t have to always be laugh-out-loud fun, but it can’t be boring, negative or judgmental. For a start, minimize lectures, PowerPoint and worksheets. Maximize humor, conversation and engaging activities.
  2. “Just-in-time-learning”
    At the Florida Prosperity Partnership Conference, president/CEO Kaye Schmidt suggested only offering what is immediately relevant to the participants. What can they do today and tomorrow? They’ll be more likely to come back when they are ready to focus on next week and next month.
  3. Sacrifice content
    It’s only natural to want to cram in as much as possible when you get people into the room, but it’s the law of diminishing returns. If it’s too much and they are not enjoying themselves, they won’t take in as much, retain what they heard, and they won’t come back.
  4. The environment makes a difference
    A dark windowless, bare room with uncomfortable chairs and dreary surroundings sets a very different tone than a well lit, attractive room with comfortable seats. Being uncomfortable and in a depressing environment is actually distracting and leads to less learning.
  5. Set a positive tone
    Avoid starting off the class with a pre-test, assessment or a worksheet. Likewise, don’t ask people to write down their money mistakes or fill out a budget worksheet with their income and expenses. If they’re already feeling down about money, it just takes them to bad place. Instead, use humor and start with an ice-breaker that focuses on a positive experience when people made good choices and experienced a success. Think about what would make it easier for students to learn rather than on what you want to teach.

A credit board game to teach credit classes

A credit board game is included in The Good Credit Game, a credit curriculum kit. The Road to Good Credit is a credit board game that helps make credit classes fun and hands-on.

Teach a credit class with a credit board game

The credit curriculum is divided into two major sections. The first section helps people learn about credit reports and credit scores. The credit board game can build on the first lessons. It is typically done as the second half of a credit class. It may also be used as a standalone class or activity. (You could also use the credit board game as a first and last activity in a sort of pre- and post-test manner. This helps people understand what they don’t know and then shows them what they’ve learned after the class.) The credit board game and the other credit games and activities teach students about credit scores, credit reports and credit cards.

The Good Credit Game includes a credit board game.
The credit board game helps teach credit classes.

An educational credit board game

The credit board game is a mix of Trivial Pursuit and Chutes & Ladders. As the teacher, you can choose which question cards to use. You can also emphasize harder or easier questions. And you can choose from the 39 different credit topics. (These topics include bankruptcy, payday lending, credit history, etc.) So it’s accessible to all audiences, the credit board game is written at a fifth-grade reading level or below.

The credit board game in practice

The Good Credit Game’s activities are all designed to be done in small groups of 3-5 people. Credit classes are more fun, collaborative and engaging with this small-group format. As with Money Habitudes, we’ve seen how important it is for students to be able to laugh, talk and be active in financial education classes.
We advise allowing an hour to play the credit board game. It’s appropriate for credit classes for adults and young adults (including college and military classes).

A new credit curriculum to teach a credit class

Building on the popularity of Money Habitudes, we’ve just released The Good Credit Game. It’s a credit curriculum kit that makes it fun and easy to teach credit classes. The Good Credit Game covers credit reports, credit scores and credit cards.

A credit curriculum that’s fun to teach

One of the things that financial educators like about Money Habitudes is that it’s fun and hands-on – so we built those important parts into this new credit curriculum. We wanted it to be a credit curriculum that financial educators would want to teach. But we also wanted students in financial education classes to find it fun to learn about credit reports, credit scores and credit cards.
The Good Credit Game uses a variety of hands-on credit games and activities. That way, you don’t have to rely on lectures, PowerPoint and worksheets. And because the credit curriculum was designed to be collaborative and use group activities, students find it engaging.

good credit game - credit curriculum - credit board game
The Godo Credit Game has a credit board game, but it’s a complete credit curriculum with lots of other activities.

A credit curriculum that’s flexible and adaptable

The Good Credit Game was designed to be a flexible credit curriculum. There are six main modules. Each of these units can be used on its own or combined with other units. Doing the entire credit curriculum and all of the credit games takes about 2 hours, but a financial educator may choose to omit some or shorten others. For example, you can choose to just use the credit board game for an hour. Or choose to just use the Cost of Credit Calculators for 10 minutes.
The credit curriculum is designed so that you can teach credit classes that are more basic. Or you can choose to teach a credit class using more advanced questions and topics. Choose from 39 different credit topics.

Teach credit classes with an easy credit curriculum

A big challenge to teaching credit classes is that credit is a complicated topic. Therefore, The Good Credit Game takes a “teach-out-of-the-box” approach. This means you don’t have to be a credit expert to teach credit classes that are fun and effective. The teacher’s guide has complete financial lesson plans that are easy to read, set up and understand. Within the credit curriculum you’ll find pre-written explanations about credit reports, credit scores and credit cards that are easy to use. You can teach yourself or read the explanations to the credit class when necessary. Also, the activities largely run themselves.

An accessible credit curriculum

Participants in a credit class can be very diverse. The Good Credit Game’s student materials are all written at 5th-grade reading level or below. We’ve also included a glossary of the bigger, more complicated financial terms that you may run across in a credit class. It’s also applicable to people with a range of experience using credit – it can even be used as a training tool for credit educators.

Financial literacy for college student financial aid

Money Habitudes is used by colleges and universities in to promote financial literacy for college students. It may be a student financial aid office running a financial aid workshop or using the tool in financial counseling sessions. It’s also used in a number of colleges’ peer financial counseling programs. And it’s used in residence life programs on financial literacy. This is, of course, in addition to financial planning and family & consumer science classes that use the materials in financial classes.

Typical ways the cards are used on campuses for student financial aid:

  1. college student financial aidTo hook people and get them into financial education classes. Using the Money Habitudes cards for a standalone class is an easy, fun, low-stress way to engage with college students for the first time. It may be something you can do at another event, as part of a student financial aid program, or in residence halls. Although this is an example from military dorms, it’s a similar idea.
  2. As the first class in a series. Often student financial aid offices teach a series like: Budgeting, Getting Banked, Credit Reports and Scores. Now, many organizations just bolt on Money Habitudes as the first class (so the budget class becomes Class #2). Using the money games, they focus on habits, attitudes, values and behaviors in Class #1. It also builds camaraderie in financial aid classes and sets a tone of fun and open sharing. And it helps people understand why they do what they do with money and allows people to set better goals.
  3. As an icebreaker and get-to-know-you tool to be used by financial peer counselors. In short, Money Habitudes helps people talk about money. There are a number of colleges that have financial peer counseling programs like this; a great example is work being done by Red to Black at Texas Tech. This is a similar financial peer coaching case study.
  4. Finally, Money Habitudes cards are used a lot in financial aid training and financial literacy training sessions. This may be either for financial coaches, financial counselors, volunteers and peer coaches. It’s partly as a training to help people talk about money — always a difficult topic — relate better to clients and be more sensitive to different people who see/use money differently than they do. This relies on the money personality aspect of the cards which helps people better understand themselves and others when it comes to money.